Re: odavaim mootor ca 500hj & Nm saavutamiseks?
Postitatud: 02.12.2011 14:43
Põnev teema. Sama huvitav on tegelikult auto kui terviku vaatamine/võrdlemine. Milline auto on kõige paremini tasakaalus, mootori nö "response" on parim, käigukasti ja ülekannete sobivus mootori iseloomuga, lisahobujõudude saamise lihtsus/odavus rõhu tõstmise või vabalthingavale autole turbo lisamise läbi, roolisüsteemi-teetunnetuse-juhitavuse-kere-veermiku-käigukasti-pidurite vastupidavus ja koostöö/sobivus tõstetud võimsusega, auto enda soetushind jne. Kui kõikide nende detailide kooslust ühes autos vaadata ja püüda hinnata autot kui tervikut, ning seda kuidas see kooslus juhile ja auto sooritusvõimele mõjub, siis läheb pilt palju keerulisemaks.
Kui väga lihtsustada, siis saab ka eesti entusiastid kaheks jagada. Mootorimehed kellele piisab ka kiiresti otse sõitvast autost - ehk siis audimeeste ja suuremahulise saksa NA raua turbotajate koolkond ning teisel pool on väiksemate ja kergemate hea juhitavusega pöördelembeliste (sageli ka väiksema hp-ga) autode omanikud kellele meeldib ka vahel kurvis kiiresti sõita ehk siis S-Nissanid ja 924/944 Porsched. Ma loodan, et ma väga nüüd liiga kellelegi ei teinud
Samas üks huvitav projektimõte mis Eestis veel tegelikult teostamata ja maandub veidi nende kahe maailma vahele - E36 M3 + custom turbolahendus. Suht kerge kere, hea juhitavus, suure mahuga + pöördelembeline mootor ja mõistlik soetushind.
Tuli veel meelde üks Nissani fanboy küsimus - kes oskab nimetada turbomootorieid mis olid juba tehasest ITB-dega.
Mees kelle värvikas ja inforohke jutt on mulle alati meeldinud - mootoriguru Eric Hsu - on alati rõhutanud mootori seadistuse olulisust, laia powerband'i ja response tähtsust. Veidi tsitaate RB26 kohta:
The 2530s are the ultimate turbos for the 500-600hp range. A single turbo with properly selected components can come close, but they still cannot match a pair of 2530's low end response and part throttle power modulation that you need on the street or a tight, small road course. Plenty of turbos can do the 500-600hp thing, but the 2530s are so perfectly sized for the RB26 that they can magnify the entire powerband if your engine is tuned correctly with the right parts.
Vanakooli saksa raua turbotamise kohta ka veidi kildu (mulle endale 930 hirmsasti meeldib, aga ega Hsu selle jutuga ei eksi ka) Plus if you look at the 930's engine, you kind of wonder how Porsche and Porsche tuners even got as far as they did with it. It is archaic looking. It obviously works, but an air cooled Porsche 6 banger cannot produce the powerband of an RB26. With its 2 big ass valves and 2 spark plugs/cyl, it can produce a shit ton of mid-range and that's it. It doesn't produce a ton of high RPM power. It doesn't produce tons of torque at the bottom either. Winner? RB26 again despite it being significantly smaller in displacement. It's just an engine that benefits from being designed in a newer era.
Kõik teavad kindlasti valge Mine's R34 GTR videot, kus Keiichi Tsuchiya karjus roolis ja mootor käis pöördesse nagu bike'l, sellise setupi kohta ka veidi tausta:
We can thank Mine's and the HKS 2530 turbos for creating the whole big cam, medium sized turbo, sub 8500 rpm style of engine tuning. If you think the Mine's car is running their off the shelf cams, you should hear it idle. If it has a pair of their off the shelf 250° cams, then I'm black. The car can BARELY idle. In America, I'll have to pat myself on the back for creating the trend with Kim Johnson's BNR34 and pretty much smoking the shit out of nearly everybody at just about every competition we attended with a daily driven street car. I was influenced by rally engines that used long duration high lift cams with medium sized turbochargers and had insanely wide powerbands and flat torque curves. To this day I still get emails from Skyline owners that say, "What did you use for xxxx part on Kim's car? I'm trying to build a clone." In reality, to build a clone you'll need about $35K and a trip to XS Engineering, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. I give advice, but not secrets.
Miks ma nii pikalt siin kirjutan - point selles, et suuremahulisele mootorile turbo külge viskamine ja sealt 500hp saamine ei tohiks olla turboentusiastidele mingi püha graal, mille saavutamine/leidmine on kõrgeim ja ülim eesmärk.
Kui väga lihtsustada, siis saab ka eesti entusiastid kaheks jagada. Mootorimehed kellele piisab ka kiiresti otse sõitvast autost - ehk siis audimeeste ja suuremahulise saksa NA raua turbotajate koolkond ning teisel pool on väiksemate ja kergemate hea juhitavusega pöördelembeliste (sageli ka väiksema hp-ga) autode omanikud kellele meeldib ka vahel kurvis kiiresti sõita ehk siis S-Nissanid ja 924/944 Porsched. Ma loodan, et ma väga nüüd liiga kellelegi ei teinud
Samas üks huvitav projektimõte mis Eestis veel tegelikult teostamata ja maandub veidi nende kahe maailma vahele - E36 M3 + custom turbolahendus. Suht kerge kere, hea juhitavus, suure mahuga + pöördelembeline mootor ja mõistlik soetushind.
Tuli veel meelde üks Nissani fanboy küsimus
- kes oskab nimetada turbomootorieid mis olid juba tehasest ITB-dega.Mees kelle värvikas ja inforohke jutt on mulle alati meeldinud - mootoriguru Eric Hsu - on alati rõhutanud mootori seadistuse olulisust, laia powerband'i ja response tähtsust. Veidi tsitaate RB26 kohta:
The 2530s are the ultimate turbos for the 500-600hp range. A single turbo with properly selected components can come close, but they still cannot match a pair of 2530's low end response and part throttle power modulation that you need on the street or a tight, small road course. Plenty of turbos can do the 500-600hp thing, but the 2530s are so perfectly sized for the RB26 that they can magnify the entire powerband if your engine is tuned correctly with the right parts.
Vanakooli saksa raua turbotamise kohta ka veidi kildu (mulle endale 930 hirmsasti meeldib, aga ega Hsu selle jutuga ei eksi ka)
Plus if you look at the 930's engine, you kind of wonder how Porsche and Porsche tuners even got as far as they did with it. It is archaic looking. It obviously works, but an air cooled Porsche 6 banger cannot produce the powerband of an RB26. With its 2 big ass valves and 2 spark plugs/cyl, it can produce a shit ton of mid-range and that's it. It doesn't produce a ton of high RPM power. It doesn't produce tons of torque at the bottom either. Winner? RB26 again despite it being significantly smaller in displacement. It's just an engine that benefits from being designed in a newer era.Kõik teavad kindlasti valge Mine's R34 GTR videot, kus Keiichi Tsuchiya karjus roolis ja mootor käis pöördesse nagu bike'l, sellise setupi kohta ka veidi tausta:
We can thank Mine's and the HKS 2530 turbos for creating the whole big cam, medium sized turbo, sub 8500 rpm style of engine tuning. If you think the Mine's car is running their off the shelf cams, you should hear it idle. If it has a pair of their off the shelf 250° cams, then I'm black. The car can BARELY idle. In America, I'll have to pat myself on the back for creating the trend with Kim Johnson's BNR34 and pretty much smoking the shit out of nearly everybody at just about every competition we attended with a daily driven street car. I was influenced by rally engines that used long duration high lift cams with medium sized turbochargers and had insanely wide powerbands and flat torque curves. To this day I still get emails from Skyline owners that say, "What did you use for xxxx part on Kim's car? I'm trying to build a clone." In reality, to build a clone you'll need about $35K and a trip to XS Engineering, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. I give advice, but not secrets.
Miks ma nii pikalt siin kirjutan - point selles, et suuremahulisele mootorile turbo külge viskamine ja sealt 500hp saamine ei tohiks olla turboentusiastidele mingi püha graal, mille saavutamine/leidmine on kõrgeim ja ülim eesmärk.
A la sobiks rajale, kus sirged on 300kmh ja kurvid 200kmh. Aga kui GT35'st maximum võtta, ja möödasõitu ise planeerida, siis 2sek pärast tagasireastudes pole vaja peeglisse isegi McLaren F1'st möödudes vaadata 